Obama puts USAID in charge of military in Haiti

Progressives have supported Barack Obama's decision to place the gutted USAID agency in charge of disaster relief over the military in Haiti. Below is a discussion amongst Progressives who are searching for every reason to support Obama regardless if he's making a wise decision.

Interestingly, some Progressives have argued below that any military presence in Haiti would signify that the US is invading the country. Meanwhile, Venezuela and Brazil already have troops aiding relief efforts in Haiti.

Slow Response (0+ / 0-)

If his slow response to Haiti is like this in a US disaster, he's toast. People are trapped under rubble and the US military is taking orders from US AID and they're still in the planning stages.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 03:58:10 PM PST

* I would suppose a US disaster (21+ / 0-)

Would be much easier to respond to, since every state already has its own National Guard units and trained first responders and, like, working hospitals and such.

by kscatlvr2001 on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:06:59 PM PST

* And a functioning airport (17+ / 0-)

with a working air traffic control tower

MOVERS: The Overton Window will go to the left.

by Fe Bongolan on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:08:14 PM PST

That's where the military would excel (0+ / 0-)

They could go in there and run air traffic control from their own equipment almost instantly. Planes should be running 24 hours a day. As of now, they're doing nothing.

Instead, the military, with the capabilities to bring aid, are sitting in Miami waiting for orders from USAID and State.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:10:48 PM PST

* Yes, but the equipment (2+ / 0-)

has to get there and we have no idea what kind of conditions the runways are- in most disasters like this helicopters are the first to go in.

There is an aircraft carrier enroute and a hospital ship has recalled it's crew and will be on it's way tomorrow.

So no, the military is not sitting in Miami.

USAID also has people in Haiti right now that can tell them what is needed the most and what conditions are like.

Save the Earth! It's the only one that has chocolate.

by skohayes on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:11:00 PM PST

* Coast Guard has also been mobilized (2+ / 0-)

to provide what aid they can.

Civility is the way of telling someone to go fuck themselves in such a way that the someone agrees it probably is a good idea.

by Cali Scribe on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:26:57 PM PST

The military plans for that (0+ / 0-)

They already know the conditions. All they need is a green light.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:47:28 PM PST

* They're on the move now (0+ / 0-)

The green light was given, obviously.

Save the Earth! It's the only one that has chocolate.

by skohayes on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:49:43 PM PST

Maybe (0+ / 0-)

But if the military does not have command control, their use will be limited.

The airport should have been operational long ago and the military could have done it.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:56:58 PM PST

* And there also wouldn't be a need to coordinate (6+ / 0-)

With the international community as much as there is in this case. That is causing some of the delayed response as well.

by kscatlvr2001 on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:11:09 PM PST

They can't coordinate as it is (0+ / 0-)

The US military is equipped for a situation like this and can lead coordination. Instead, they're sitting around.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:26:04 PM PST

* Do you expect the US to invade Haiti? (4+ / 0-)

The US military can't just go in and take over.

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." ~Albert Einstein

by ParkRanger on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:03:26 PM PST

They can save lives (0+ / 0-)

Or you could look at it as an invasion and not use your resources available to you. Which is what Obama has chosen when he put USAID, a gutted agency, in charge of the relief efforts instead of the military.

While people are dying under the ruble, the US military is just now sending assessment teams while they sit on the heavy machinery that could be used to save lives. All of this just so you can say the US isn't invading Haiti.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:46:01 PM PST

* you're really on the firebagger tip, arncha? (1+ / 0-)

by Urizen on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:53:55 PM PST

hehe... (0+ / 0-)

Had to laugh. I'd rather be eating dinner. =)

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:58:28 PM PST

* and, like, infrastructure (3+ / 0-)

geez

by eXtina on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:00:04 PM PST

* you win some kind of trophy...I am going to the (4+ / 1-)

toilet to prepare it for you.

by ficil on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:19:09 PM PST

* OMG I can't help it. That was freaking funny. (0+ / 0-)

Sorry. I know I know. But seriously, that was funneee! LMAO!

Obama's campaign was about bringing change to the country. His presidency is about defining what that change means and how to achieve it.

by marabout40 on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:51:48 PM PST

* Um this isn't a game of yahtzee we're talking (13+ / 0-)

about here. This is complicated, and there'll be a US aircraft carrier and hospital ship off Haiti's cost by tomorrow or possible Friday for the hospital ship. The country had no infrastructure set up for this. This process is moving as fast as it can.

(If this is snark, sorry.)

Pat Robertson is a dumbfuck!

by dlh77489 on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:19:18 PM PST

Imagine if this was New Orleans... (0+ / 0-)

And we told the people to wait a week and we'll have some supplies there.

The military, on the other hand, the entire Southern Command, could be on the ground tomorrow with the command structure setup on the ground in three hours.

A wasted resource.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:24:58 PM PST

* Where are you getting this from? (11+ / 0-)

New Orleans DID wait a week, first of all. And second, New Orleans had roads leading into the city, they had a working airport. And New Orleans is a city in the richest country on Earth.

And unless I'm crazy, POTUS said this morning that there would be rescue crews in the country by this afternoon. And mobilizing whole divisions of the US military takes a little while.

WTF are you talking about?

Pat Robertson is a dumbfuck!

by dlh77489 on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:28:01 PM PST

No supplies have landed (0+ / 0-)

The White House admitted this today on Wolf Blitzer's CNN.

Gen. Honore explained that the military should have been in charge of this disaster and that politics has been prioritized instead of saving lives.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:30:47 PM PST

* You are full of shit! (2+ / 0-)

Take ur bullshit to RedState.

Pat Robertson is a dumbfuck!

by dlh77489 on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:33:48 PM PST

Prove me wrong (0+ / 0-)

Please.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:37:49 PM PST

Turn on CNN (0+ / 0-)

They've been having excellent coverage. I don't know where you're getting your news, but if you think the disaster relief is arriving, you're wrong. The airport is down.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:39:14 PM PST

* You're full of shit because you're talking (4+ / 0-)

about other politicizing this but the only one doing that IS YOU!!!!

Take it to RedState.

Pat Robertson is a dumbfuck!

by dlh77489 on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:47:08 PM PST

Is the general wrong? (0+ / 0-)

Gen. Honore told Wolf Blitzer that Obama needs to go off script and get the military mobilized in there to command and control the chaos, get the heavy machinery in there and start saving lives instantly.

I'm not the one politicizing this.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:50:23 PM PST

* This NYT article is 43 min. old (7+ / 0-)

And it does not tell the story you are pushing.

US, Globe Rush Rescue, Relief Workers to Haiti

I am not reading about "sitting around".

by beachmom on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:01:10 PM PST

That's the problem (0+ / 0-)

According to Gen. Honore. Many relief agencies have shown up but on this scale, no one can accomplish the task except for the US military which has only now just sent an assessment team.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:20:12 PM PST

* See my update. They got there this morning (5+ / 0-)

I mean, this is a huge operation. I think they are reacting very fast. And there are political reasons to bash USAid, which Sec. Clinton has been working hard to beef up after it was gutted under the Bush Administration. So, I guess I think it's a bit early to start talking "slow response".

by beachmom on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:25:00 PM PST

Why would you put a gutted agency in charge? (0+ / 0-)

US AID was gutted under Bush, you claim, yet that's the same agency that Obama put in charge of the relief efforts for Haiti.

I think Gen. Honore's opinion that the military should be in charge of the relief and rescue is right on the dot.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:32:42 PM PST

* Wasn't General Honore in charge of New Orleans' (0+ / 0-)

recovery efforts for a time?

I don't think he should be giving advice.

And you're full of shit!

Pat Robertson is a dumbfuck!

by dlh77489 on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:34:27 PM PST

Gen. Honore received props in New Orleans (0+ / 0-)

From everyone involved. He couldn't enter New Orleans without permission. Once he arrived, he got right to work. Learn your history before you rewrite it, at least.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:36:53 PM PST

* Yes, because New Orleans is all better now (1+ / 0-)

Good job, General.

You're full of shit.

Pat Robertson is a dumbfuck!

by dlh77489 on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:37:58 PM PST

Wrong (0+ / 0-)

He did rescue, restored order and saved lives when he entered the city. There was nothing he could do before he entered the city. And he is remembered fondly for his work.

Learn your history before you rewrite it.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:41:48 PM PST

* You're a troll. (3+ / 0-)

You also believe the leaked climatologist emails were all part of a giant conspiracy and are a global warming denier. I read through your comments. You're a clever one, but you're still a troll.

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

by missLotus on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:38:10 PM PST

When they hid data and smeared other scientists.. (0+ / 0-)

Then yeah, it was a conspiracy. Other legitimate scientists now don't take them seriously for good reason. You don't have to believe in a conspiracy to believe that.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:43:40 PM PST

* According to Brian Williams (5+ / 0-)

who's on the ground in Haiti says that relief is coming in from all over; they did see an Air Finland or similar jet land, so evidently the airport is safe for at least limited access. This is going to be a worldwide effort, not the US bossing everyone around like was done under Bush. I believe that efforts are also being made to get some aid into the country from the Dominican Republic side of the island.

Civility is the way of telling someone to go fuck themselves in such a way that the someone agrees it probably is a good idea.

by Cali Scribe on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:31:33 PM PST

That's the problem (0+ / 0-)

Lots of people bringing in relief isn't the answer. Haiti needs heavy lifting right now and only the US military can do that immediately. The military showing up to save lives isn't the same as the US military showing up and bossing everyone around.

In fact, it looks like someone does need to go and boss everyone around because even the relief agencies cannot coordinate themselves.

Your belief that US military involvement is the same as US hegemony is the reason, I believe, why Obama's not using the full force of US resources to save Haitian lives. To prove to the world that the US doesn't want to boss people around, Haitians have to die.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:35:40 PM PST

* This is a troll. Don't feed it. (6+ / 0-)

Read his history.

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

by missLotus on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:39:03 PM PST

* Agreed. nt (4+ / 0-)

by beachmom on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:48:31 PM PST

* 1 hour old B. Sun: C-130 lands in Haiti (4+ / 0-)

http://www.baltimoresun.com/...

by beachmom on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:03:15 PM PST

That's the assessment team (0+ / 0-)

They're not in charge and can only make recommendations.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:19:03 PM PST

* NBC Nightly News ... (3+ / 0-)

... said tonight that an aircraft carrier is going and will arrive tomorrow. The US Coast Guard sent a cutter that arrived this morning.

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

by missLotus on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:22:47 PM PST

Great...but where are the boots on the ground? (0+ / 0-)

That's the argument Gen. Honore has been making.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:24:12 PM PST

* Um, not sure you should put so much stock (1+ / 0-)

into this guy.

I mean he has one opinion but I wouldn't take his alone and make it gospel.

Wiki:

Russel L. Honoré (pronounced ON-or-ay) (b. 1947) is a retired Lieutenant General who served as the 33rd commanding general of the U.S. First Army at Fort Gillem, Georgia. He is best known for serving as commander of Joint Task Force Katrina responsible for coordinating military relief efforts for Hurricane Katrina-affected areas across the Gulf Coast and as the 2nd Infantry Division Commander while stationed in Korea.

...

On September 20, 2005 at a press conference on Hurricane Rita with Nagin, Honoré made headlines nationwide when he told a reporter not to get "stuck on stupid" in reference to a question about the government response to Hurricane Katrina.

...

Honoré describes himself an "African-American Creole", a mixture that includes French, American Indian and Spanish.

In late August 2009, there were reports that Honoré would run for U.S. Senate in 2010 in his native Louisiana as a Republican against incumbent Republican Senator David Vitter.[4] On August 31, when asked point-blank on CNN about the reports, Honoré expressed admiration for individuals who aspire to serve in public office but said that he had no plans to seek the Senate seat.

Again, I am not dismissing his opinion out of hand. Just that I would prefer to get at least four opinions before I hit the panic button.

by beachmom on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:31:55 PM PST

He is remembered fondly for his work in NO (0+ / 0-)

By everyone involved with Katrina. He's not the one who could make the decision to go in immediately, which you somehow are blaming him for. He could only go in when given permission. When he got it, he went right to work and that's why people remember him.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:39:55 PM PST

* The USS Forward arrived this morning (5+ / 0-)

US Coast Guard cutter. The first large vessel in the harbor.

Who would Jesus let suffer? -7.50, -8.51

by Rogneid on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:03:31 PM PST

And? (0+ / 0-)

How has a single cutter been lifting people out of the rubble?

At least it's something, but it's not enough and Gen. Honore (rt) has explained that only the US military can accomplish rescue on this scale and they've only just sent an assessment team (two hours ago, I think).

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:21:37 PM PST

* Want to help Haiti? Follow General H's advice and (1+ / 0-)

...invite General Honore to give a speech. It's the very first thing he suggests you do when you go to his web page.

http://www.generalhonore.com/...

General Russel Honoré, LLC

Inquiries for Speaking Engagements, click here: inquiries@generalhonore.com

"Are you bluish? You don't look bluish," attributed to poet Roger Joseph McGough, for the Beatles' Yellow Submarine (1968).

by BlueStateRedhead on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:25:31 PM PST

Please (0+ / 0-)

Why would you go to a retired General's website to help Haiti?

He's on the talk shows providing his opinions.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:29:21 PM PST

* Because I wanted to know more about him (1+ / 0-)

....and the expertise he has the gives you the right to talk about the White House admitting this or that, as if you, thanks to your General, are the arbiter of what can and should be done.

And, from his web site, we learn he provides his opinions on a cash basis.

So I really know I have to believe him. And you.

"Are you bluish? You don't look bluish," attributed to poet Roger Joseph McGough, for the Beatles' Yellow Submarine (1968).

by BlueStateRedhead on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:50:20 PM PST

So? (0+ / 0-)

Because people pay him for his opinions, you believe that means they're not worth anything? On the contrary, his opinions are valued. He has direct experience with command and rescue, and has a very good reputation for that.

I doubt the talk-shows pay, though. I have a couple of clients who are often on these talk-shows and they don't receive anything.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 06:01:36 PM PST

We already saw that movie. (0+ / 0-)

It was called Katrina.

When you get too big a majority, you're immediately in trouble. -- Sam Rayburn

by wmtriallawyer on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 06:11:43 PM PST

We're watching again by i8pikachu, Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 06:16:10 PM PST (0+ / 0-)

* I've seen this dude before (3+ / 0-)

and don't think it's snark.

Civility is the way of telling someone to go fuck themselves in such a way that the someone agrees it probably is a good idea.

by Cali Scribe on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:27:43 PM PST

It's not. (5+ / 0-)

I just read through the history, and from what I've read he thought the climate emails that were leaked were part of a conspiracy, has defended the bashing of ACORN, and thinks it was perfectly okay for Beck and his ilk to immediately make racist statements about the Ft. Hood shooting being an act of terrorism before anyone knew the details.

He's a troll.

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

by missLotus on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:44:25 PM PST

Beck and racism? (0+ / 0-)

I don't remember even commenting on that. But, you no doubt took that out of context if I did.

The climate emails speak for themselves.

by i8pikachu on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 06:17:05 PM PST

* expect you'd be down there (6+ / 0-)

getting things organized since you seem to know so much.

"We're creating instability that could lead us into wider war."....Dennis Kucinich (Duhhhhh.)

by lisastar on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:23:39 PM PST

* See Catzmaw downthread (7+ / 0-)

Military is in staging/prepping already. WAY ahead of where they were re: Katrina.

by beachmom on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 04:54:26 PM PST

* Ah, you've been talking to Rush! (4+ / 0-)

See everything, overlook a great deal, improve a little. John XXIII

by keeplaughing on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:01:14 PM PST

It's been just over 24 hours (3+ / 0-)

since the earthquake hit -- right now it's almost impossible to get communications going inside the country, much less with the outside world. And they're trying to make sure the airport is actually safe enough to use for massive airlifts in of the supplies and equipment necessary; wouldn't do any good to have two planes crash into each other because air traffic control systems are down.

Civility is the way of telling someone to go fuck themselves in such a way that the someone agrees it probably is a good idea.

by Cali Scribe on Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 05:25:56 PM PST

Not impossible by i8pikachu, Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 06:21:53 PM PST (0+ / 0-)